British Pedophilia Scandal

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British Pedophilia Scandal

Postby Waleis » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:59 pm

"Child sex abuse is "woven, covertly, into the fabric" of British society, Theresa May has warned.

Mrs May said: "We already know the trail will lead into our schools and hospitals, our churches, our youth clubs and many other institutions that should have been places of safety but instead became the setting for the most appalling abuse.

Mrs May said the inquiry marked a "new beginning", but warned allegations made so far were only the "tip of the iceberg".

The inquiry was set up in July 2014 to find out whether public bodies had covered up or neglected allegations of abuse, following claims that a paedophile ring had operated in Westminster in the 1980s.

"However, what the country doesn't yet appreciate is the true scale of that abuse."

Mrs May said she felt it was a "once-in-a-generation" chance to uncover institutional abuse, which she called "the darkness in our midst".
"

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31885906

This is eerily reminiscent of the show True Detective. In the show, two detectives investigate a child sex ring involving members of every strata of society, protected by powerful religious/political figures. In the article, it mentions how Secretary May had to dissolve the first inquiry (an inquiry which seemed to make no progress at all, for some inexplicable reason....) because members of the panel had direct connections to the alleged sex offenders being investigated. Creepy stuff. I remember watching the show, thinking it was a bit over-the-top and unrealistic how the sex offenders were being protected by the police/politicians/religious figures etc., but it seems that such "conspiracies" may actually exist.
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Re: British Pedophilia Scandal

Postby drtrech » Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:04 pm

May exist?

which part of that scenario appears to be unrealistic in light of the child sex abuse scandals we've observed here in the U.S.?
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Re: British Pedophilia Scandal

Postby Waleis » Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:25 pm

drtrech wrote:May exist?

which part of that scenario appears to be unrealistic in light of the child sex abuse scandals we've observed here in the U.S.?

The part that I found unrealistic in the show, was the sheer vastness of the pedophile ring. I had no idea that these groups would extend all throughout the society, from the lawnmower guy to the pastor to the local congressman. That's what surprised me.

But then again, I hadn't really done much research on this subject until I saw True Detective a couple months ago, so there's a lot I still don't know.
Last edited by Waleis on Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: British Pedophilia Scandal

Postby Waleis » Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:28 pm

Former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher turned a blind eye to child abuse allegations:

"Documents have revealed that Margaret Thatcher was made aware of allegations involving the Liberal MP before he was given the honour.

The papers, released to the Mail of Sunday following repeated demands for disclosure, also show that the country's most senior civil servant wrote to the director of public prosecutions to find out why Smith did not face justice for alleged offences against teenage boys.

The 19-page dossier of information on the decision to confer a knighthood on former Rochdale MP Smith in 1988 included one undated letter, marked secret, from a member of the Political Honours Scrutiny Committee to Mrs Thatcher, warning of "the risk that such an award could give rise to adverse criticism".
"

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/03 ... 29512.html
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Re: British Pedophilia Scandal

Postby niokulis » Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:55 am

I would like to observe this.

Child molestation appears to be a very unique topic or rather an emotional state which invokes a very distinct consensus between people. I've noticed how (especially between US people) the pedophilia appears to be the ultimate evil, and absolutely warrants nothing other than a capital punishment. People may start discussing if somebody should get put in jail for murder or a mass murder, because it's not really a clear cut issue. However, as soon as somebody mentions child molestation everybody seems to get enraged and cry in a witch-hunting frenzy "kill him". It's really interesting - child molestation to be on the another stratosphere from any other crime possible. I can see the grounding for that as far as cultural and emotional consciousness of humanity is, but still - very specific.

So now I assume it is fairly similar in the UK, too. Lets see how big of a phenonemon pedophilia is - is it a thing where everybody is outraged to the extreme yet culturally conditioned to let it pass? I have a feeling it really is more than just an emotional topic - it could be some kind of dark, self-relfective unconscious virus that everybody is suffering from.
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Re: British Pedophilia Scandal

Postby drtrech » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:57 am

niokulis wrote:I would like to observe this.

Child molestation appears to be a very unique topic or rather an emotional state which invokes a very distinct consensus between people. I've noticed how (especially between US people) the pedophilia appears to be the ultimate evil, and absolutely warrants nothing other than a capital punishment. People may start discussing if somebody should get put in jail for murder or a mass murder, because it's not really a clear cut issue. However, as soon as somebody mentions child molestation everybody seems to get enraged and cry in a witch-hunting frenzy "kill him". It's really interesting - child molestation to be on the another stratosphere from any other crime possible. I can see the grounding for that as far as cultural and emotional consciousness of humanity is, but still - very specific.

So now I assume it is fairly similar in the UK, too. Lets see how big of a phenonemon pedophilia is - is it a thing where everybody is outraged to the extreme yet culturally conditioned to let it pass? I have a feeling it really is more than just an emotional topic - it could be some kind of dark, self-relfective unconscious virus that everybody is suffering from.

In general I think you're right. But on the DCF I've seen a surprising amount of debate--not only about the severity of punishment, but about whether it should be a crime at all.
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Re: British Pedophilia Scandal

Postby drtrech » Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:02 am

@Waleis: I see your point--it's a bit fantastical to imagine an egalitarian subculture like the Freemasons, but bonded by their predilection for a dark evil.
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Re: British Pedophilia Scandal

Postby de officiis » Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:45 am

Waleis wrote:"Child sex abuse is "woven, covertly, into the fabric" of British society, Theresa May has warned.

Mrs May said: "We already know the trail will lead into our schools and hospitals, our churches, our youth clubs and many other institutions that should have been places of safety but instead became the setting for the most appalling abuse.


Hospitals? Damn.
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Re: British Pedophilia Scandal

Postby Waleis » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:29 am

niokulis wrote:I would like to observe this.

Child molestation appears to be a very unique topic or rather an emotional state which invokes a very distinct consensus between people. I've noticed how (especially between US people) the pedophilia appears to be the ultimate evil, and absolutely warrants nothing other than a capital punishment. People may start discussing if somebody should get put in jail for murder or a mass murder, because it's not really a clear cut issue. However, as soon as somebody mentions child molestation everybody seems to get enraged and cry in a witch-hunting frenzy "kill him". It's really interesting - child molestation to be on the another stratosphere from any other crime possible. I can see the grounding for that as far as cultural and emotional consciousness of humanity is, but still - very specific.

So now I assume it is fairly similar in the UK, too. Lets see how big of a phenonemon pedophilia is - is it a thing where everybody is outraged to the extreme yet culturally conditioned to let it pass? I have a feeling it really is more than just an emotional topic - it could be some kind of dark, self-relfective unconscious virus that everybody is suffering from.

I think that the public feels a subconscious need, a genuine desire for these scandals. Our culture inculcates us (particularly in the more conservative/religious parts of America) with a deep shame towards our sexuality, particularly if our sexuality is in any way outside the perceived norm. These child abuse scandals serve the purpose of alleviating some of that shame and guilt: "I may fantasize about extreme bondage, but at least I'm not a pedophile." That's how it works, national catharsis through comparison.

This creates a phenomenon where the visceral, emotional anger towards the pedophile is directly proportional to the amount of sexual shame an individual feels about themselves. From a totally external perspective, these scandals exist solely to alleviate the sexual guilt of the populace. For this reason, the public doesn't really care, on a subconscious level, if the pedophiles are actually convicted and imprisoned (as long as the pedophile isn't operating in their neighborhood, that is). The act of condemnation itself is enough to satisfy the emotional needs of the populace.

The predictable public outrage that arises every time one of these scandals hits the news, is not directed at the criminal himself, but rather it is directed at the existence of pedophilia in general. I think this is a key reason why so many of these cases are successfully covered up: The public doesn't seem to care about imprisoning individual pedophiles, the public cares solely about the act of condemnation itself. That is to say, the public condemns the criminal as a way to condemn the crime, rather than the other way around. Child sex crimes are different from all other crimes, in this particular way.

Anyways, that's my opinion about why the public reacts so strangely to these particular crimes. Ultimately, I think that we'd be more effective at finding and imprisoning these criminals, if as a nation we felt less sexual shame in general. That would take a lot of emotion out of the situation, allowing us to focus on the criminals rather than the crime.
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Re: British Pedophilia Scandal

Postby de officiis » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:46 am

From a totally external perspective, these scandals exist solely to alleviate the sexual guilt of the populace. For this reason, the public doesn't really care, on a subconscious level, if the pedophiles are actually convicted and imprisoned (as long as the pedophile isn't operating in their neighborhood, that is).


I assume you are not dismissing the idea that pedophilia should be punished because of the injury it inflicts on children.
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Re: British Pedophilia Scandal

Postby Waleis » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:57 am

de officiis wrote:I assume you are not dismissing the idea that pedophilia should be punished because of the injury it inflicts on children.

Pedophilia should absolutely be punished. It's a terrible crime, obviously.

The whole point of my post was to explain why the public reacts so strangely to such crimes, and why that reaction is counter-productive. Unlike the vast majority of crimes, child sex crimes are unique in that the public focuses on the crime itself, rather than the criminal. And this is part of the reason, in my opinion, why so many of these cases go unresolved.
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"True heroism is you, alone, in a designated workspace. True heroism is minutes, hours, days, year upon year of the quiet, precise, judicious exercise of probity and care, with no one there to see or cheer." The Pale King, by D. F. Wallace.
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Re: British Pedophilia Scandal

Postby boethius » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:44 am

Waleis wrote:
de officiis wrote:I assume you are not dismissing the idea that pedophilia should be punished because of the injury it inflicts on children.

Pedophilia should absolutely be punished. It's a terrible crime, obviously.

The whole point of my post was to explain why the public reacts so strangely to such crimes, and why that reaction is counter-productive. Unlike the vast majority of crimes, child sex crimes are unique in that the public focuses on the crime itself, rather than the criminal. And this is part of the reason, in my opinion, why so many of these cases go unresolved.


We don't need your bizarre pyschobabble to explain the low conviction rate of pedophiles.

The nature of the crime is such that there is often a huge lag between the crime commission and reporting (often years). The only witness is often unreliable because of their young age and trauma that distorts memory and makes them easily impeachable by defense counsel. There is often little to no physical evidence.

But go on...tell us how the low conviction rate is really the fault of sexually repressed southerners. FFS... :shakinghead:
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Re: British Pedophilia Scandal

Postby Dr. Strangelove » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:47 am

drtrech wrote:But on the DCF I've seen a surprising amount of debate--not only about the severity of punishment, but about whether it should be a crime at all.



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Okay, Deborah.
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Re: British Pedophilia Scandal

Postby boethius » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:49 am

Dr. Strangelove wrote:
drtrech wrote:But on the DCF I've seen a surprising amount of debate--not only about the severity of punishment, but about whether it should be a crime at all.



Image


Okay, Deborah.

The DCF will surely figure out the criminality of pedophilia about the same time it determines the legality of beastiality.
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Re: British Pedophilia Scandal

Postby drtrech » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:54 am

Waleis wrote:
de officiis wrote:I assume you are not dismissing the idea that pedophilia should be punished because of the injury it inflicts on children.

Pedophilia should absolutely be punished. It's a terrible crime, obviously.

The whole point of my post was to explain why the public reacts so strangely to such crimes, and why that reaction is counter-productive. Unlike the vast majority of crimes, child sex crimes are unique in that the public focuses on the crime itself, rather than the criminal. And this is part of the reason, in my opinion, why so many of these cases go unresolved.

Your hypothesis is an interesting one. But it requires far too much knowledge of the human psyche for most of us to be able to gauge its plausibility.

My own hypothesis for why the cases go unresolved is that kids can be led to say little things that put their stories into doubt (they can also be persuaded that things happened when they didn't really). Which makes it easy for a defense attorney to create reasonable doubt.

But that's only speculation.
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