Terrorist Shooting in Paris

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Terrorist Shooting in Paris

Postby doc_loliday » Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:30 am

http://abcnews.go.com/International/deadly-shooting-reported-french-satirical-newspaper-office/story?id=28050771

Twelve people have died and three others were critically injured as gunmen opened fire at the office of a Paris-based satirical newspaper today, police said, an attack that France's president called a terrorist operation.



The following links are very graphic.
http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/2015/01/video_schutters_parijs_schiete.html

http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/2015/01/tien_doden_door_schietpartij_p.html
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Re: Terrorist Shooting in Paris

Postby drtrech » Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:50 am

Tragic and very sad.

It appears, at least, that this may be yet another attack by Islamic extremists on a blasphemous newspaper.

If the facts bear that out, two questions come to mind:

1. How does one differentiate between extremists and moderates in a religion that maintains that the penalty for blasphemy is death--particularly where there is no central authority to provide guidance in the interpretation and application of that law?
2. How does that religion coexist with a free society, where even blasphemy is tolerated by law and tradition?
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Re: Terrorist Shooting in Paris

Postby Dr. Strangelove » Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:03 am

drtrech wrote:
1. How does one differentiate between extremists and moderates in a religion that maintains that the penalty for blasphemy is death--particularly where there is no central authority to provide guidance in the interpretation and application of that law?
2. How does that religion coexist with a free society, where even blasphemy is tolerated by law and tradition?




Ask Bjorn. He seems to think it's not a big deal.
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Re: Terrorist Shooting in Paris

Postby Fife » Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:26 am

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Re: Terrorist Shooting in Paris

Postby Fife » Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:30 am

Do not despair, one of the thieves was saved;
Do not presume, one of the thieves was damned.
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Re: Terrorist Shooting in Paris

Postby Fife » Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:59 pm

Do not despair, one of the thieves was saved;
Do not presume, one of the thieves was damned.
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Re: Terrorist Shooting in Paris

Postby Fife » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:04 pm

https://twitter.com/tobyharnden/status/552969591077740544

Toby Harnden ‏@tobyharnden

Brilliant cartoon from @Telegraph's Matt on the murder of four Frenchmen who plied his trade #JeSuisCharlie

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3:26 PM - 7 Jan 2015
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Re: Terrorist Shooting in Paris

Postby drtrech » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:56 pm

I wish there were a way to have every newspaper everywhere publish the specific cartoons that drew the attack--flood the world with the thing they were trying to suppress.

Blasphemy for everyone :goteam:
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Re: Terrorist Shooting in Paris

Postby Fife » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:25 pm

drtrech wrote:I wish there were a way to have every newspaper everywhere publish the specific cartoons that drew the attack--flood the world with the thing they were trying to suppress.

Blasphemy for everyone :goteam:


Oh, there's a way to get what you "wish for."

"Blasphemy for everyone" is some rather mundane shizz. Can you do a little better?
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Re: Terrorist Shooting in Paris

Postby Dr. Strangelove » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:25 pm

Not sure I agree. Some of these cartoons have actually been pretty offensive. It doesn't help create peace when you publish what you would call hate speech if it were directed at you and your sacred cows.

Please don't take this as a defense of violence against people for drawing these cartoons, but it's still something people ought to consider. If this were the 1930s and some Jewish activists attacked a Nazi propaganda outfit that made cartoons depicting Jews as some kind of pariah on European society, would your response also be to want to publish the Nazi propaganda cartoons?
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Re: Terrorist Shooting in Paris

Postby Fife » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:45 pm

Dr. Strangelove wrote:Not sure I agree. Some of these cartoons have actually been pretty offensive. It doesn't help create peace when you publish what you would call hate speech if it were directed at you and your sacred cows.

Please don't take this as a defense of violence against people for drawing these cartoons, but it's still something people ought to consider. If this were the 1930s and some Jewish activists attacked a Nazi propaganda outfit that made cartoons depicting Jews as some kind of pariah on European society, would your response also be to want to publish the Nazi propaganda cartoons?


IMNSHO, the siren song of prior restraint is singing sweetly to you, DSL.

I happen to believe that the ONLY reason that fascism continues to operate in places like Paris' publishing district in 2015 is because the fucking murderers still (to this day) believe that they have an avenue of unfettered attack open to them.

Lets get away from the immediate horrors of today: Can you come up with an example where submission to prior restraint (under ANY condition) has furthered human life?

It's a question I've given some thought to.
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Re: Terrorist Shooting in Paris

Postby Dr. Strangelove » Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:16 pm

Nope.

I don't oppose peoples' right to publish crazy shit. I am saying that we ought not endorse that crazy shit simply because somebody even crazier decided to shoot them over it.


This was a man who published the equivalent of racist 19th century cartoons, or antisemitic cartoons in the 1930s. While I think it's awful these fuckers decided to kill him for it, I don't think the fact that some of the targets of his vitriol are worse than him somehow validates the hateful things he used to publish.

If some 19th century Irishmen barged into a Know-Nothing newspaper office and gunned down the cartoonist who mocked Irishmen as subhuman, would that validate the hateful things that cartoonist drew? What about Nazi antisemitic cartoons?

Take this a step further. If that homosexual activist had managed to fulfill his goal of killing everybody in a Family Research Council office space, would the likes of drtrech and his ilk suddenly feel solidarity to publish FRC material? Or do you only support republishing this material everywhere when you consciously or subconsciously agree with the material for which the person was killed?
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Re: Terrorist Shooting in Paris

Postby imperfectionst » Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:29 pm

Not that it matters, but I doubt any of the cartoons were simply hateful and irrational propaganda, I would call them sincere attempts at political discourse. If they were publishing things that told people to kill all Muslims, then such a reprisal would be perfectly warranted.
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Re: Terrorist Shooting in Paris

Postby Dr. Strangelove » Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:34 pm

Nah. Nothing offensive about that shit, when you actually subscribe to that kind of hate, I guess.

http://www.troutinmilk.com/wp-content/u ... ctures.jpg

http://p9.storage.canalblog.com/97/33/1 ... 1165_o.jpg

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/ima ... kkanvm.jpg


That's just "rational discourse" to atheists. :facepalm:
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Re: Terrorist Shooting in Paris

Postby acrause » Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:34 pm

drtrech wrote:Tragic and very sad.

It appears, at least, that this may be yet another attack by Islamic extremists on a blasphemous newspaper.

If the facts bear that out, two questions come to mind:

1. How does one differentiate between extremists and moderates in a religion that maintains that the penalty for blasphemy is death--particularly where there is no central authority to provide guidance in the interpretation and application of that law?
2. How does that religion coexist with a free society, where even blasphemy is tolerated by law and tradition?


Aren't there some wacky things in the Old Testament that many Christians and Jews believe? Also even if moderates of a religion believe that blashphemy should equal death does that mean anything if they don't actively support it. I know many moderates of Christianity that don't even really follow all of the rules.
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